A Class Blog exploring American literature and the American experience.
Wednesday, April 6, 2011
What are the poetic merits of T.S. Elliot's Wasteland?
T.S. Elliot's Wasteland is a poetic work no matter how confusing and jumbled it is. It is also included in the Norton which says that the poem benefits literature. What are the poetic merits of Elliot's Wasteland?
"Wasteland," no matter how confusing it may be, has many merits. Considering it is a work of Modernism, it is very experimental and innovative. It is responsible for influencing a poetic movement. It brought a new style of communication to people to help them cope with the destruction from World War I. It also made people able to dive further into the meaning of life by giving people new perspectives, allowing them to do it.
I'm doing a part of "The Waste Land" for the poetry recitation project, and the more I read through it, the more I like it. When I first read it, I was distracted every other line by the footnotes, and didn't get a feel for the flow and gracefulness of the poem. I think "The Waste Land" on its own is a beautiful poetic work with a lot of depth and meaning, and I think that the excessive footnotes distract and detract from this poem's merits.
I agree with you Emily, that when broken down, "The Waste Land" is a beautiful poem. Another source of merit from "The Waste Land" is that it's experimental concept and form allowed for innovation by causing people to question the definition of poetry. I think that "The Waste Land" also has merit, as Teddy mentioned, because of its ability to relate to a new generation of people whose feelings did not connect to Romantic poetry. Romantic poetry explored issues and emotions that were relevant to a generation that lived in a more innocent and peaceful world. The violence and surreal horrors of World War I changed the world and the issues and emotions of the people who experienced the war as well. The Romantic poetry did not relate to these new feelings and a new form of poetry that could relate was needed. "The Waste Land" and the Modernism movement attempt to relate to people who have experienced the horror of war, a challenging task. In my opinion, "The Waste Land" accomplished this and deserves recognition for doing so.
Sarah and Emily, I agree with both of you. I was so confused reading The Waste Land the very first time and I thought all the footnotes were completely pointless. However, after our debate in class I found that that response was the exact response Eliot wanted the readers. Sarah you mentioned that it was a challenging task for Eliot to relate to the people affected by the war, and I agree. Relating to readers while still incorporating the horrors of war is hard, all while creating an interesting poem.
The Wasteland is about composure, not necessarily about the final product. I think that it the beauty of the the idea that really makes this poem. It is overwhelming, but intentionally so. It is supposed to challenge the readers, just like the world has challenged the generation it is written for.
Sarah O and Kelsey, I disagree that the Wasteland is about the way it is written and how it is put together rather than what is actually written. While the style of the poem does mirror what Eliot is saying and I believe he uses this to further his point, Eliot's words are what has made this poem famous. Eliot's stories of pre-war and post-war, his extended metaphors for love, and the underlying "Quest Narrative" make it famous. I think it was Kelsey who said in the debate that this poem can be read and be thought of as a beautiful poem ignoring the footnotes etc. I agree with this. His words are what make this poem a staple in American Poetry today
Andrew: I think you're comment about the "Quest Narrative" is actually evidence against what you are arguing. The Quest Narrative shows the importance of the structure and process of creating the poem. In his actual words, he really doesn't discuss a "quest" much, except maybe in passing. The actual creating of the poem is the quest. Eliot is searching for meaning in his own words (and a lot of references). While I found many of the lines beautiful, I think that the actual making of the poem should be considered as an equally important part of the poem, as Kelsey and Sarah said.
I believe that the meanings and ideas of "The Waste Land" are expressed through a collaboration of how the poem is put together and the actual words that are being said. So in essence, i concur with all the points made in this clog. The poem, which as mentioned before is very difficult to read/comprehend, is hard to read and comprehend for a reason. That reason is the same reason why the poem utilizes both the ideas of how it is put together and the meaning that is casted through the actual text. This collaboration makes the meaning much more powerful. Eliot uses specific, important words and uses them in a specific, important way. This method ultimately packs a larger punch to the reader.
Just wanted to add that, for me, "The Waste Land" is probably the catchiest poem in American Literature. So many lines from it get stuck in my head: "these fragments I have shored against my ruin"; "so many, I had not thought death had undone so many"; "I remember those are pearls that were his eyes"; "April is the cruelest month"; "He who was living is now dead, /We who were living are now dying /With a little patience." Admittedly, some of his best lines are actually from earlier works--BUT he has recast them and given them new emotional weight. The more I read this poem, the more it moves me, even though I wouldn't claim that I understand every part of it perfectly.
Just my two cents.
I also like what Emily said about the quest being Eliot's own quest to write the poem itself. Makes the poem sound almost postmodern, which I think it is in a way.
"The Waste Land" allowed readers to approach the poem in a different way. I personally found it was fun to find out how each character and mixture of different literature could form a deep meaning. It does require readers to repeat reading several times to get the meaning from the footnotes. However, understanding is not the biggest point of experiencing Eliot's poem. Eliot's construction of his own meaning of the poem, like Emily mentioned, adds significance of "The Waste Land" beyond the complicated meaning and product of the poem.
I agree with Ms. Stuart that The Waste Land has beautiful lines in it, but I also don't think that qualifies a good piece of work. It's a good aspect, but it doesn't make a poem. On the other hand, the foot notes are a bad aspect, which in my opinion, don't destroy the poem either. They merely distract, irritate, and lose readership.
Whether it's a good poem or not, I think the controversy The Waste Land generates it the largest reason it's in the Norton. So many people have had opinions on whether or not it's a good poem, or even art at all that it's entered the canon.
Yes but the Norton isnt an anthologie of controversial works. it selects works based on artistic merit. this implies that the people that compiled the norton, at least, consider The Waste Land to have artistic merit and it was not entered due to the controversy it creates.
I don't think that the selection of "The Waste Land" as part of the Norton Anthology proves that anyone thinks the poem has artistic merit. I think they chose it because it is an important part of the history of American literature, which could be for any number of reasons. It could be important because it has artistic merit, it's controversial, or just because it's a good example of a Modernist work. I don't think that 'it's in the Norton' is good enough proof that the poem has artistic merit.
"Wasteland," no matter how confusing it may be, has many merits. Considering it is a work of Modernism, it is very experimental and innovative. It is responsible for influencing a poetic movement. It brought a new style of communication to people to help them cope with the destruction from World War I. It also made people able to dive further into the meaning of life by giving people new perspectives, allowing them to do it.
ReplyDeleteI'm doing a part of "The Waste Land" for the poetry recitation project, and the more I read through it, the more I like it. When I first read it, I was distracted every other line by the footnotes, and didn't get a feel for the flow and gracefulness of the poem. I think "The Waste Land" on its own is a beautiful poetic work with a lot of depth and meaning, and I think that the excessive footnotes distract and detract from this poem's merits.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Emily, that when broken down, "The Waste Land" is a beautiful poem. Another source of merit from "The Waste Land" is that it's experimental concept and form allowed for innovation by causing people to question the definition of poetry. I think that "The Waste Land" also has merit, as Teddy mentioned, because of its ability to relate to a new generation of people whose feelings did not connect to Romantic poetry. Romantic poetry explored issues and emotions that were relevant to a generation that lived in a more innocent and peaceful world. The violence and surreal horrors of World War I changed the world and the issues and emotions of the people who experienced the war as well. The Romantic poetry did not relate to these new feelings and a new form of poetry that could relate was needed. "The Waste Land" and the Modernism movement attempt to relate to people who have experienced the horror of war, a challenging task. In my opinion, "The Waste Land" accomplished this and deserves recognition for doing so.
ReplyDeleteSarah and Emily, I agree with both of you. I was so confused reading The Waste Land the very first time and I thought all the footnotes were completely pointless. However, after our debate in class I found that that response was the exact response Eliot wanted the readers. Sarah you mentioned that it was a challenging task for Eliot to relate to the people affected by the war, and I agree. Relating to readers while still incorporating the horrors of war is hard, all while creating an interesting poem.
ReplyDeleteThe Wasteland is about composure, not necessarily about the final product. I think that it the beauty of the the idea that really makes this poem. It is overwhelming, but intentionally so. It is supposed to challenge the readers, just like the world has challenged the generation it is written for.
ReplyDeleteI think Eliot's poem is not about what is actually written in his poem, but, like Kelsey said, the way it is written and how it is put together.
ReplyDeleteSarah O and Kelsey, I disagree that the Wasteland is about the way it is written and how it is put together rather than what is actually written. While the style of the poem does mirror what Eliot is saying and I believe he uses this to further his point, Eliot's words are what has made this poem famous. Eliot's stories of pre-war and post-war, his extended metaphors for love, and the underlying "Quest Narrative" make it famous. I think it was Kelsey who said in the debate that this poem can be read and be thought of as a beautiful poem ignoring the footnotes etc. I agree with this. His words are what make this poem a staple in American Poetry today
ReplyDeleteAndrew: I think you're comment about the "Quest Narrative" is actually evidence against what you are arguing. The Quest Narrative shows the importance of the structure and process of creating the poem. In his actual words, he really doesn't discuss a "quest" much, except maybe in passing. The actual creating of the poem is the quest. Eliot is searching for meaning in his own words (and a lot of references). While I found many of the lines beautiful, I think that the actual making of the poem should be considered as an equally important part of the poem, as Kelsey and Sarah said.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the meanings and ideas of "The Waste Land" are expressed through a collaboration of how the poem is put together and the actual words that are being said. So in essence, i concur with all the points made in this clog. The poem, which as mentioned before is very difficult to read/comprehend, is hard to read and comprehend for a reason. That reason is the same reason why the poem utilizes both the ideas of how it is put together and the meaning that is casted through the actual text. This collaboration makes the meaning much more powerful. Eliot uses specific, important words and uses them in a specific, important way. This method ultimately packs a larger punch to the reader.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to add that, for me, "The Waste Land" is probably the catchiest poem in American Literature. So many lines from it get stuck in my head: "these fragments I have shored against my ruin"; "so many, I had not thought death had undone so many"; "I remember those are pearls that were his eyes"; "April is the cruelest month"; "He who was living is now dead, /We who were living are now dying /With a little patience." Admittedly, some of his best lines are actually from earlier works--BUT he has recast them and given them new emotional weight. The more I read this poem, the more it moves me, even though I wouldn't claim that I understand every part of it perfectly.
ReplyDeleteJust my two cents.
I also like what Emily said about the quest being Eliot's own quest to write the poem itself. Makes the poem sound almost postmodern, which I think it is in a way.
"The Waste Land" allowed readers to approach the poem in a different way. I personally found it was fun to find out how each character and mixture of different literature could form a deep meaning. It does require readers to repeat reading several times to get the meaning from the footnotes. However, understanding is not the biggest point of experiencing Eliot's poem. Eliot's construction of his own meaning of the poem, like Emily mentioned, adds significance of "The Waste Land" beyond the complicated meaning and product of the poem.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ms. Stuart that The Waste Land has beautiful lines in it, but I also don't think that qualifies a good piece of work. It's a good aspect, but it doesn't make a poem. On the other hand, the foot notes are a bad aspect, which in my opinion, don't destroy the poem either. They merely distract, irritate, and lose readership.
ReplyDeleteWhether it's a good poem or not, I think the controversy The Waste Land generates it the largest reason it's in the Norton. So many people have had opinions on whether or not it's a good poem, or even art at all that it's entered the canon.
Yes but the Norton isnt an anthologie of controversial works. it selects works based on artistic merit. this implies that the people that compiled the norton, at least, consider The Waste Land to have artistic merit and it was not entered due to the controversy it creates.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the selection of "The Waste Land" as part of the Norton Anthology proves that anyone thinks the poem has artistic merit. I think they chose it because it is an important part of the history of American literature, which could be for any number of reasons. It could be important because it has artistic merit, it's controversial, or just because it's a good example of a Modernist work. I don't think that 'it's in the Norton' is good enough proof that the poem has artistic merit.
ReplyDelete